Although I've only attended three chapel services here at Asbury (including the one I attended as a prospective) I can honestly say that they have each been some of the most precious times of corporate worship and fellowship that I have ever experienced. I really can't pinpoint it but each time I enter the chapel God has spoken to me in wonderful ways. Although the experience is more than emotional I am always brought to tears in one way or another. The Spirit of God is so powerful in that place when the Asbury community gathers to worship. There are no egos, there are no self-serving motives, there is only pure radiant passion for Holy Triune Godhead.
I can't even begin to explain how I feel every time I leave chapel here at Asbury. I don't leave chapel thinking "that was a good sermon" or "the worship was good," instead I leave chapel longing for all of my friends to be here with me to experience God the way that I have just experienced God. I leave thinking "God is awesome" or "I've just encountered a Holy God who loves me and I have been changed."
I know that three experiences shouldn't qualify as enough empirical evidence to make a statement like this, but I truly feel that the desire of the people here is for God and the Spirit of God is mighty in this place. I feel like every word is a word of truth spoken out of love. To abuse a phrase that I have quoted time and time again "My heart is strangely warmed" with the very words of the greeting or blessing.
I don't feel that I'm "learning something new" each chapel, but rather things that I have known are being made fresh and are piercing through to my heart. The new things I learn are indeed new and profound, but I don't feel overloaded with information, I feel broken and open before the Lord. I feel that he is present and the he is reaching down to embrace me.
Though chapel is the primary place that I feel this, I also feel this intimacy and the reign of the Spirit in various presidential weekly email addresses and other readings written by Asburians. I truly think that Asbury is succeeding in accomplishing its founding principle which is: "to prepare and send forth a well-trained sanctified, Spirit-filled, evangelistic ministry."
Now I'm not saying that some people don't fall through the cracks while at Asbury. I'm sure there are more than a few people here that are just going through the motions and that have wacked out theologies and ideas, but I still feel that the Spirit of God reigns in this place and in the lives of most of the seminarians here.
I am very confident that this is the place that I am suppose to be right now in my life. God is stretching me ministering to me in new ways. This place seems to be a good fit for me and I believe the reason for that to be because this is where I am called.
I don't say all this to brag on Asbury and to try and convince all my friends who are budding seminarians to come here. I just write all this because it is what God is doing around me, it is what he is speaking to me and it is how he is ministering to me.
There is truly no joy greater than to be in the will of God. For me, right now, it is to be at Asbury Theological Seminary. Maybe net year it will be something different, but for now I am here and am confident that this is the place that God has called me. Although I feared this was the wrong decision I am now assured that it is not.
May you all know God's calling on your life, may he speak his will to you and my you're joy be complete in being where he calls. Blessings to you my friends as you continue on your journeys.
Ben
Wednesday, August 31, 2005
Wednesday, August 24, 2005
short thoughts on incarnational living
I'm about ready to leave for Notre Dame. I'm going there with a sound production company to run sound at a Cake show. Although this is a "trial run" with me on the team, I'm really excited. I'm excited because if I get the job I'll get a chance to be an incarnational representation of Jesus in a place that most Christians don't get to go (unless they own their own companies and only do Christian shows). The job would be a part time (weekends) thing, but either way I would get a chance to live out my faith with people who wouldn't normally set foot in a church.
I firmly believe that we don't need to water down our churches (ie: church growth movement/seeker church) to reach people who wouldn't set foot in a church. No all we need to do is to be real, to be involved with them and to live our lives in Christ's image. Incarnational ministry and living as Christ is the only way to go.
Ok well I have to go.
May you all live as Christ lived and love as Christ loved today!
I firmly believe that we don't need to water down our churches (ie: church growth movement/seeker church) to reach people who wouldn't set foot in a church. No all we need to do is to be real, to be involved with them and to live our lives in Christ's image. Incarnational ministry and living as Christ is the only way to go.
Ok well I have to go.
May you all live as Christ lived and love as Christ loved today!
Monday, August 22, 2005
Church experiment part II
After my experience with the "charismatic ministry" I was a little hesitant to try out any "off-band" (not denominationally tagged) churches. However hesitant I may have been, I was evidently more curious because I set out at 9:45 Sunday morning in search of Great Commission Fellowship (GCF) a church that one of the head guys of the International House of Prayer helped plant. Well after driving around for 20 minutes not finding it, I drove by Gospel Word Missionary Fellowship. I didn't want to stop, because of the "word" in the name, in fact I drove by twice, but for some reason (either the Holy Spirit's prodding or my own curiosity) I pulled in the parking lot and went to Sunday school and church there. I was hoping upon all hope that this wouldn't be like the last church I attended. I didn't want "word of faith" stuff, I wanted good bible teaching, I wanted to commune with passionate believers, I wanted to be formed and to help form others. The name was enough to drive me away, but I pressed on through my trepidation and walked it. Sunday school had already started so I walked in and sat in the back of the room. I was greeted by a large man who told me what passage we were studying as the women teaching the class continued. Even before I grasped the teaching I felt that this was a good church. Maybe it's because I was the minority (one of only 5 or 6 white faces... Which I loved), maybe it was because there was a woman leading the class, or maybe it was because of the sense of desire for God in the place (I'm thinking it's the last reason).
I almost jumped up and shouted for joy in between Sunday school and the regular service when the little kids' class (5-10 yr olds) came in and recapped their lesson for the adults. They told us how they learned about the Trinity, yes the blessed and neglected doctrine of the Godhead. They explained how each member is God, how they are united in will and in purpose, and substance (thought they didn't use those words) while functioning uniquely. This wasn't some cheesy; let's watch Veggie Tales Sunday school class... No this was teaching kids doctrine while focusing on the practical implications of the doctrine. The kids seemed to understand it and to realize that it's who God is and how God relates to them in each person. Praise the Lord!!
After the singing the pastor got up to speak and started by saying that he had read an article lately that talked about 7 steps for Church Growth. He said that he didn't know it but they basically were the same as what he had been preaching the last 3 weeks. I thought to myself, "here we go again." I was almost ready to tone him out when he said that the 3rd step goes along with this week's sermon. He said the 3rd step to church growth is PERSECUTION!!
This wasn't some church growth putz; this was a man of God, a prophet to the people of God. He asked us if the Cross of Christ was really worth it. Was it worth it to proclaim the "WHOLE Gospel" of Jesus? In his sermon he spoke against prosperity gospel, weak and complacent Christianity, right wing unbiblical "Christian" stances, and a plethora of other topics that resonate within my very being. He called us to live out the whole Kingdom of God. To be a people of the kingdom, to live like Christ and to love like Christ. It was almost as if all of the sermons that I have ever preached were being compiled and spewing forth from this man's mouth (oh and there was enough time for that, he preached for 2- 2.5 hours).
My heart was encouraged. I'm not a lonely voice, crying out for the church to come back and be the people of God. It's not just my Houghton friends who are passionate citizens of the kingdom, no; God is doing a work throughout his church. He is raising up prophets and teachers to call his people back to be his people again.
I'm not sure if I'll make this church my home or not (especially not if I get a job working at another church) but it is nice to know that there are others who are proclaiming "prepare yet the way of the Lord."
____________________________________
Sunday evening I went to another "church" called communality in Lexington. I found this community because it is loosely affiliated with the C&MA. The nature of the community is very Doug Pagit-esq. It's shaped like a house-church and it is very involved with social agendas. I really enjoyed it and will probably continue to go (again, unless I get a job at church and have youth group on Sunday nights). I was late for the service, but got to talk to one of the leaders (an ATS grad) for about an hour after the service.
This group seems to be more concerned with Orthodoxy than Pagit's group (probably because most of the people are connected with the seminary, although there are a few people who are just part of the city), but I still have some concerns with it.
My first concern is that the community is not very intergenerational. Granted I don't know how intergenerational you can be when you have a few seminary students starting a house church of about 20 people. But then again, it has been going for 7 or 8 years and there are now 3 house churches that are part of "Communality." I just feel that not being multi-generational is dangerous. I know we have to start somewhere, and indeed the NT churches probably did as well, but we still must strive to be multi-generational.
My second concern is that the group is very involved in political (mostly social and environmental...aka hippie/liberal) concerns. I'm all for environmentalism, and social action (especially social action) but I'm not sure if tying a "church" so closely to various liberal (or conservative) political agendas is a good idea. Although the Kingdom of God has political ramifications, it is not primarily a political kingdom. As a future pastor I'm fine with my congregants participating as Christians in various groups, but to be linked as a "church" seems a bit compromising. We yell at the right-wing conservative church for doing this sort of thing and then we go and do the same on the left. I'm not completely decided on this issue, because I do believe that Christians can't be politically ignorant or apathetic, but as far as the extent of the connection to political agendas goes: I'm not sure.
My third concern is the use of the Charisms (gifts of the spirit) in the group. The group is a deliberate thrust to get away from the standard way of doing church, but in doing so are they limiting the use of the Charisms? Admittedly the "regular" church has exalted the role of the preacher and thus elevated those (preaching/teaching/ and maybe prophesy depending on your definition) gifts. But is this group allowing for those gifts to be used? There is no time for public exhortation so is one with the gift of prophecy/preaching going to be able to use their gift. What about other gifts? Are they used in this community or is it basically a community of like-minded, like-gifted teachers all teaching each other. If so, is it a good thing? I'm not saying it's a bad thing, I'm just questioning.
My fourth and final concern (for now) is doctrine. In typical small groups doctrine sort of gets brushed over. If there was a new convert or a young Christian, would they be formed doctrinally? I know that doctrinal language isn't essential, and that doctrine isn't the ultimate, but it is important. Would one learn the doctrine of the Trinity through something other than casual observance? When I posed this question Bill (the guy I talked with) answered that most of the community is theologically formed and they hold to more of a "social-trinitarianism" as per Multmon. I'm not really familiar with this so I'll have to do some more research before I decide what I think about it. Like I said doctrine isn't the ultimate thing, but it is important in spiritual formation, it will be interesting to see how this is approached as more people from non-seminary backgrounds enter the group.
Don't misunderstand me; I'm not bashing this group. These are just a few concerns that I have. I think the group is good and very incarnational in the city. There are a number of people in the city that have experienced grace and redemption through communality. There are also people in the community that wouldn't set foot in a regular church, people with mental disorders, without homes, and without people who care about them. These disenfranchised people have found a family in Communality.
I plan to continue to attend there, because the people are good, they are in pursuit of God and long to see him move. They long to be incarnational in the city and to the people they live among. This is a wonderful picture of the love of Christ. Maybe I'm too traditional in my ecclesiology, because I have so many reservations. I guess we'll see how my thoughts form as I continue to attend. I really am looking forward to next Sunday when we have a meal together and fellowship as a true community. I'm really hoping I can make it. I have a job "trial" with a pro audio production company next weekend in which we're going to Notre Dame to run sound for a huge show. The job would be really cool and give me a chance to be incarnational in a place that most Christians wouldn't get to go. We're scheduled to get back on Sat. So I should be able to make it to Communality, but there is always the chance that we'll be late or something. I doubt it though.
Hopefully you continue to find my ramblings enlightening and formational. I pray that one of the simple-minded things that I type may draw you closer to the Father this day.
I almost jumped up and shouted for joy in between Sunday school and the regular service when the little kids' class (5-10 yr olds) came in and recapped their lesson for the adults. They told us how they learned about the Trinity, yes the blessed and neglected doctrine of the Godhead. They explained how each member is God, how they are united in will and in purpose, and substance (thought they didn't use those words) while functioning uniquely. This wasn't some cheesy; let's watch Veggie Tales Sunday school class... No this was teaching kids doctrine while focusing on the practical implications of the doctrine. The kids seemed to understand it and to realize that it's who God is and how God relates to them in each person. Praise the Lord!!
After the singing the pastor got up to speak and started by saying that he had read an article lately that talked about 7 steps for Church Growth. He said that he didn't know it but they basically were the same as what he had been preaching the last 3 weeks. I thought to myself, "here we go again." I was almost ready to tone him out when he said that the 3rd step goes along with this week's sermon. He said the 3rd step to church growth is PERSECUTION!!
This wasn't some church growth putz; this was a man of God, a prophet to the people of God. He asked us if the Cross of Christ was really worth it. Was it worth it to proclaim the "WHOLE Gospel" of Jesus? In his sermon he spoke against prosperity gospel, weak and complacent Christianity, right wing unbiblical "Christian" stances, and a plethora of other topics that resonate within my very being. He called us to live out the whole Kingdom of God. To be a people of the kingdom, to live like Christ and to love like Christ. It was almost as if all of the sermons that I have ever preached were being compiled and spewing forth from this man's mouth (oh and there was enough time for that, he preached for 2- 2.5 hours).
My heart was encouraged. I'm not a lonely voice, crying out for the church to come back and be the people of God. It's not just my Houghton friends who are passionate citizens of the kingdom, no; God is doing a work throughout his church. He is raising up prophets and teachers to call his people back to be his people again.
I'm not sure if I'll make this church my home or not (especially not if I get a job working at another church) but it is nice to know that there are others who are proclaiming "prepare yet the way of the Lord."
____________________________________
Sunday evening I went to another "church" called communality in Lexington. I found this community because it is loosely affiliated with the C&MA. The nature of the community is very Doug Pagit-esq. It's shaped like a house-church and it is very involved with social agendas. I really enjoyed it and will probably continue to go (again, unless I get a job at church and have youth group on Sunday nights). I was late for the service, but got to talk to one of the leaders (an ATS grad) for about an hour after the service.
This group seems to be more concerned with Orthodoxy than Pagit's group (probably because most of the people are connected with the seminary, although there are a few people who are just part of the city), but I still have some concerns with it.
My first concern is that the community is not very intergenerational. Granted I don't know how intergenerational you can be when you have a few seminary students starting a house church of about 20 people. But then again, it has been going for 7 or 8 years and there are now 3 house churches that are part of "Communality." I just feel that not being multi-generational is dangerous. I know we have to start somewhere, and indeed the NT churches probably did as well, but we still must strive to be multi-generational.
My second concern is that the group is very involved in political (mostly social and environmental...aka hippie/liberal) concerns. I'm all for environmentalism, and social action (especially social action) but I'm not sure if tying a "church" so closely to various liberal (or conservative) political agendas is a good idea. Although the Kingdom of God has political ramifications, it is not primarily a political kingdom. As a future pastor I'm fine with my congregants participating as Christians in various groups, but to be linked as a "church" seems a bit compromising. We yell at the right-wing conservative church for doing this sort of thing and then we go and do the same on the left. I'm not completely decided on this issue, because I do believe that Christians can't be politically ignorant or apathetic, but as far as the extent of the connection to political agendas goes: I'm not sure.
My third concern is the use of the Charisms (gifts of the spirit) in the group. The group is a deliberate thrust to get away from the standard way of doing church, but in doing so are they limiting the use of the Charisms? Admittedly the "regular" church has exalted the role of the preacher and thus elevated those (preaching/teaching/ and maybe prophesy depending on your definition) gifts. But is this group allowing for those gifts to be used? There is no time for public exhortation so is one with the gift of prophecy/preaching going to be able to use their gift. What about other gifts? Are they used in this community or is it basically a community of like-minded, like-gifted teachers all teaching each other. If so, is it a good thing? I'm not saying it's a bad thing, I'm just questioning.
My fourth and final concern (for now) is doctrine. In typical small groups doctrine sort of gets brushed over. If there was a new convert or a young Christian, would they be formed doctrinally? I know that doctrinal language isn't essential, and that doctrine isn't the ultimate, but it is important. Would one learn the doctrine of the Trinity through something other than casual observance? When I posed this question Bill (the guy I talked with) answered that most of the community is theologically formed and they hold to more of a "social-trinitarianism" as per Multmon. I'm not really familiar with this so I'll have to do some more research before I decide what I think about it. Like I said doctrine isn't the ultimate thing, but it is important in spiritual formation, it will be interesting to see how this is approached as more people from non-seminary backgrounds enter the group.
Don't misunderstand me; I'm not bashing this group. These are just a few concerns that I have. I think the group is good and very incarnational in the city. There are a number of people in the city that have experienced grace and redemption through communality. There are also people in the community that wouldn't set foot in a regular church, people with mental disorders, without homes, and without people who care about them. These disenfranchised people have found a family in Communality.
I plan to continue to attend there, because the people are good, they are in pursuit of God and long to see him move. They long to be incarnational in the city and to the people they live among. This is a wonderful picture of the love of Christ. Maybe I'm too traditional in my ecclesiology, because I have so many reservations. I guess we'll see how my thoughts form as I continue to attend. I really am looking forward to next Sunday when we have a meal together and fellowship as a true community. I'm really hoping I can make it. I have a job "trial" with a pro audio production company next weekend in which we're going to Notre Dame to run sound for a huge show. The job would be really cool and give me a chance to be incarnational in a place that most Christians wouldn't get to go. We're scheduled to get back on Sat. So I should be able to make it to Communality, but there is always the chance that we'll be late or something. I doubt it though.
Hopefully you continue to find my ramblings enlightening and formational. I pray that one of the simple-minded things that I type may draw you closer to the Father this day.
Saturday, August 20, 2005
Church Experiment: A Charismatic Ministry
I made it. Yep that's right I'm living in KY now. I don't have internet in my apartment yet so this post will have to be short as I'm writing it from the library. I'm not sure if it's possible for me to be short, because I like to ramble but I'll try.
I went to church on thursday evening in a small building in Wilmore that had a sign out front that said "a charismatic ministry." Being the charismatic that I am I decided to see what it was like even though I hadn't asked anyone about it yet.
I walked in the small building and was greeted by very friendly people. The service began with singing some choruses (none of which I had ever heard before) and little jumping up and down/dancing (not on my part mind you, I'm a good Wesleyan... er... C&MA or whatever).
The offering was to be next, but before that could take place the pastor asked us to turn to a certain Psalm. He then gave a little mini-sermon on the Psalm and told us how God didn't want any of us to be in debt and that he would give us all sorts of things. It sounded a little like Larry Burkett.
After the offering we sang another song and were treated to a sermon. During the sermon my discomfort grew from mild to severe and I didn't know what to do. Should I cry? Should I laugh? Should I walk out, or should I stand up and rebuke this man for his false teaching? I chose the easy way out and sat in my pew and listened. Yes, I know, I punked out.
The sermon's main thrust was from Hebrews 3 or 4 where it calls Jesus the High Priest of our profession (KJV). The word profession, or homo-legomena (GK - same words) as the pastor liked to refer to it, was the key point. You see, we have to say words, audible words to receive things from God. If we don't say them then we don't receive. We don't receive salvation if we don't speak it audibly (I guess Jesus doesn't really love the mute people of the world), we can't receive healing if we don't speak it audibly (the mute people can't even be healed then... that sucks) and we can't receive blessings if we don't speak it audibly.
God doesn't desire us to be poor or sick, we just don't tap into his blessings because we don't speak it. We don't use the "same words."
In the sermon the Pastor also said a bunch of other things that disturbed me. He reminded us that God has exalted his word above his name, that we have more dominion than Jesus because we're on earth and we can speak the words and Jesus is in heaven, and that my physical body doesn't really matter because I'm a spiritual being (yeah for dualism).
He also demonstrated how we can be healed if we're sick. How you may ask? Say to yourself (outloud) various phrases such as:
"by his stripes I am healed"
"I'm not sick"
"I'm the healthiest person alive"
"I'm healed"
"I don't have (insert illness here)."
You also have to say these phrases (or similar ones) multiple times, it isn't enough just to say them once, it has to go on for as long as the illness continues.
The same holds true for money, if you need money just say phrases of blessing and provision. Then you'll receive and live it out.
This teaching makes me sick! I"m not saying that I don't believe in healing and God's provision, because I do. I truly believe that "by his stripes we are healed" (both spiritually and physically) and I believe that God does provide for us. I especially rely on these things as my Grandpa has lung cancer and the only hope is a miracle, and as I relocate myself down here following God with school loans and rent payments.
I believe in these things, but to reduce it to merely saying positive words to yourself is absurd. To downplay to role of Jesus and the glory God is due is just blatant Heresy or blasphemy.
I don't know why God chooses to heal some and not others, I can't explain why the majority of the church lacks power and signs of the kingdom like miracles and love. I long to see these things, but to take the stance of the above church is just dumb. What about God's heart for the poor and the downtrodden? What about giving of ourselves to others? What about healing in a community so that it is truly a witness and a sign, rather than just positive thinking?
I have never experienced so much false teaching from a church that I attended. I was truly disgusted. Although there was one bright spot. Even though there was false teaching, I truly felt that some (not all) but some of the 15 or so people in the church were my sisters and brothers in Christ. Some of them are truly seeking after God, but they are being led astray by false teachers.
May God purge his church of false teachers and false prophets and renew his bride to be pure and spotless in his sight.
May you be blessed with the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, the Power of Christ, and the Love of the Father today my friends!
I went to church on thursday evening in a small building in Wilmore that had a sign out front that said "a charismatic ministry." Being the charismatic that I am I decided to see what it was like even though I hadn't asked anyone about it yet.
I walked in the small building and was greeted by very friendly people. The service began with singing some choruses (none of which I had ever heard before) and little jumping up and down/dancing (not on my part mind you, I'm a good Wesleyan... er... C&MA or whatever).
The offering was to be next, but before that could take place the pastor asked us to turn to a certain Psalm. He then gave a little mini-sermon on the Psalm and told us how God didn't want any of us to be in debt and that he would give us all sorts of things. It sounded a little like Larry Burkett.
After the offering we sang another song and were treated to a sermon. During the sermon my discomfort grew from mild to severe and I didn't know what to do. Should I cry? Should I laugh? Should I walk out, or should I stand up and rebuke this man for his false teaching? I chose the easy way out and sat in my pew and listened. Yes, I know, I punked out.
The sermon's main thrust was from Hebrews 3 or 4 where it calls Jesus the High Priest of our profession (KJV). The word profession, or homo-legomena (GK - same words) as the pastor liked to refer to it, was the key point. You see, we have to say words, audible words to receive things from God. If we don't say them then we don't receive. We don't receive salvation if we don't speak it audibly (I guess Jesus doesn't really love the mute people of the world), we can't receive healing if we don't speak it audibly (the mute people can't even be healed then... that sucks) and we can't receive blessings if we don't speak it audibly.
God doesn't desire us to be poor or sick, we just don't tap into his blessings because we don't speak it. We don't use the "same words."
In the sermon the Pastor also said a bunch of other things that disturbed me. He reminded us that God has exalted his word above his name, that we have more dominion than Jesus because we're on earth and we can speak the words and Jesus is in heaven, and that my physical body doesn't really matter because I'm a spiritual being (yeah for dualism).
He also demonstrated how we can be healed if we're sick. How you may ask? Say to yourself (outloud) various phrases such as:
"by his stripes I am healed"
"I'm not sick"
"I'm the healthiest person alive"
"I'm healed"
"I don't have (insert illness here)."
You also have to say these phrases (or similar ones) multiple times, it isn't enough just to say them once, it has to go on for as long as the illness continues.
The same holds true for money, if you need money just say phrases of blessing and provision. Then you'll receive and live it out.
This teaching makes me sick! I"m not saying that I don't believe in healing and God's provision, because I do. I truly believe that "by his stripes we are healed" (both spiritually and physically) and I believe that God does provide for us. I especially rely on these things as my Grandpa has lung cancer and the only hope is a miracle, and as I relocate myself down here following God with school loans and rent payments.
I believe in these things, but to reduce it to merely saying positive words to yourself is absurd. To downplay to role of Jesus and the glory God is due is just blatant Heresy or blasphemy.
I don't know why God chooses to heal some and not others, I can't explain why the majority of the church lacks power and signs of the kingdom like miracles and love. I long to see these things, but to take the stance of the above church is just dumb. What about God's heart for the poor and the downtrodden? What about giving of ourselves to others? What about healing in a community so that it is truly a witness and a sign, rather than just positive thinking?
I have never experienced so much false teaching from a church that I attended. I was truly disgusted. Although there was one bright spot. Even though there was false teaching, I truly felt that some (not all) but some of the 15 or so people in the church were my sisters and brothers in Christ. Some of them are truly seeking after God, but they are being led astray by false teachers.
May God purge his church of false teachers and false prophets and renew his bride to be pure and spotless in his sight.
May you be blessed with the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, the Power of Christ, and the Love of the Father today my friends!
Wednesday, August 10, 2005
Reflection after visiting with the Grandparents
Today I drove over to Shinglehouse to visit with both my Grandpa and Grandma Howard and Grandpa and Grandma Stanley before I leave for Kentucky. I was prepared for the standard questions and dialogue and some new topics, as my Grandpa Howard was just diagnosed with in-operable lung cancer (so please be praying), but there is one profound thing that I came away with after it was all said and done.
I realized that, although I have studied theology and would consider myself educated in the things of God (or at least what humanity says about God), nothing...absolutely nothing can compare with a life of pursuing God and enjoying intimacy with him.
So often I think that I can learn so much by just having coffee with a wonderful exegete, or theologian, and while that may be true, I can learn just as much if not more by spending a day conversing with saints of the church who have spent their entire lives pursuing God. There is so much peace and love that exudes from my grandparents, they know and have tasted suffering yet remain faithful knowing that God is in sovereign and in control (sorry my openness friends, but Open Theism doesn't cut it here). I admire their steadfastness to pray, even when things don't always go well. These are the saints of the church, and I bless the name of God for the gift of godly grandparents.
This is what the writer of Hebrews was talking about when he or she described the "great cloud of witnesses" yes the cloud extends to the early church and to the Israelite fathers and mothers but we must not forget that there is a generation that is still with us that can teach us so much about life and about godliness.
I know that this seems obvious... because to a certain degree it is. In fact I've even spoken to an elderly group about this passage in Hebrews and said something similar to the above paragraph, but so often I forget it. So often I think that I can only learn from books and professors... no true spiritual formation comes from intergenerational community, it comes from living with those who have gone before us and have seen the mighty works of the Lord. They can recount his deeds to us and speak to us from experience. We as a generation must not forget them.
It seems that these thoughts go well with my previous post, we cannot do theology outside of the community of faith. On top of that, we cannot do theology outside of intergenerational community. We must be in constant dialogue with the people of God, the people of all ages that life in the faith. I know this talk of dialogue and community sounds a little like arch-heretic Doug Pagit, but it is essential. Although we can't let community and dialogue trump scripture in our development of theology, we do have to let it have a formational voice. I guess what I'm proposing is more or less the Wesleyan quadrilateral with emphasis on scripture and tradition, so I should probably shut up, because I'm pretty sure that Wesley developed a pretty sweet thing and I agree with it a lot.
So with that said, my rant has ended and my thoughts shared about how a day with my grandparents reminds me of the essential nature of community in the body. I feel blessed to still have them and learn from them everytime I talk to them. The very words they speak in peace when you know they are going through inner pain and anguish are a lesson in themselves. I feel I have so much to learn, I only hope that when I go to seminary I can get plugged into a great intergenerational church that will form me in some shadow of the way my grandparents have helped form me.
Blessings to you all!
I realized that, although I have studied theology and would consider myself educated in the things of God (or at least what humanity says about God), nothing...absolutely nothing can compare with a life of pursuing God and enjoying intimacy with him.
So often I think that I can learn so much by just having coffee with a wonderful exegete, or theologian, and while that may be true, I can learn just as much if not more by spending a day conversing with saints of the church who have spent their entire lives pursuing God. There is so much peace and love that exudes from my grandparents, they know and have tasted suffering yet remain faithful knowing that God is in sovereign and in control (sorry my openness friends, but Open Theism doesn't cut it here). I admire their steadfastness to pray, even when things don't always go well. These are the saints of the church, and I bless the name of God for the gift of godly grandparents.
This is what the writer of Hebrews was talking about when he or she described the "great cloud of witnesses" yes the cloud extends to the early church and to the Israelite fathers and mothers but we must not forget that there is a generation that is still with us that can teach us so much about life and about godliness.
I know that this seems obvious... because to a certain degree it is. In fact I've even spoken to an elderly group about this passage in Hebrews and said something similar to the above paragraph, but so often I forget it. So often I think that I can only learn from books and professors... no true spiritual formation comes from intergenerational community, it comes from living with those who have gone before us and have seen the mighty works of the Lord. They can recount his deeds to us and speak to us from experience. We as a generation must not forget them.
It seems that these thoughts go well with my previous post, we cannot do theology outside of the community of faith. On top of that, we cannot do theology outside of intergenerational community. We must be in constant dialogue with the people of God, the people of all ages that life in the faith. I know this talk of dialogue and community sounds a little like arch-heretic Doug Pagit, but it is essential. Although we can't let community and dialogue trump scripture in our development of theology, we do have to let it have a formational voice. I guess what I'm proposing is more or less the Wesleyan quadrilateral with emphasis on scripture and tradition, so I should probably shut up, because I'm pretty sure that Wesley developed a pretty sweet thing and I agree with it a lot.
So with that said, my rant has ended and my thoughts shared about how a day with my grandparents reminds me of the essential nature of community in the body. I feel blessed to still have them and learn from them everytime I talk to them. The very words they speak in peace when you know they are going through inner pain and anguish are a lesson in themselves. I feel I have so much to learn, I only hope that when I go to seminary I can get plugged into a great intergenerational church that will form me in some shadow of the way my grandparents have helped form me.
Blessings to you all!
Monday, August 08, 2005
Where have I been?
You may be asking yourself this question, I know that as look back on the past month I find it hard to trace where I've been. Yes, it has been a month since I last posted, and no, I am not neglecting my blog (life isn't busy enough for that yet). The past month I've been at Mahaffey Camp , my district church camp in Mahaffey, PA, the International House of Prayer in Kansas City, and spending some time visiting some good friends before I leave for seminary.
So how can I give a complete synopsis of my theological thoughts from a whole month, especially a month packed full of hearing preaching, praying, worshiping through song, and conversing with theologically astute friends. The answer... I can't. Thus, I fear that church camp will get touched on only briefly (since it is farthest in the past), and some of the conversations I've had will be written about sometime in the future.
On to Mahaffey!
I must preface this section by letting you all know that there is an old Alliance (Christian and Missionary Alliance - for those of you not of the true faith) adage that declares "You can't get to heaven until you've been to Mahaffey Camp." I have always interpreted this statement to mean that Mahaffey is necessary for salvation because it is a place where one can find true holiness or truly meet God, however recently some have used the statement to equate Mahaffey (with all of it's rustic virtues) to purgatory. I for one think that the latter interpretation of this statement is bogus, but whatever, you will always have those liberal theologians trying to make things mean what they don't. Oh and for those of you who don't believe that this statement is really said, just ask Drs. Charles and Darlene Bressler, they know how it is, and happily they are both going to heaven (although Charles is one of those "liberal theologians").
Camp was good, I spent a lot of time visiting with family, and explaining a few of my various theological stances to them, such as: "Why I use to be against women in ministry and now am zealously in favor of it," "Why I'm a charismatic," "What the gift of tongues is as far as I understand," "What The Openness of God is about," "Why I am so cynical," "Why I embrace the Catholic and Orthodox Churches," and "What soul sleep is and why I think I might be in favor of it."
Although, some may find the above questions a bit tiresome, I personally loved it. I love engaging and being asked questions about my varying theological positions because it forces me to look at them and examine if I truly do believe them.
Aside from visiting family, and discussing the above and various other topics, camp consited of attending prayer meetings and services, and starting both The Openness of God by Pinnock et al. and Who is God in Three Persons by John Tyson. I didn't finish either of these books at camp so I won't comment on them yet.
Although the services were good (the evening very good and the morning so so) I still felt like there wasn't much freedom or hope for the C&MA for most of camp. This changed when I was introduced to the evening speaker and he prayed (and what some might call prophesied) over me. The next night he asked "Brother Ben" to close the service but since I didn't know he was referring to me I stayed back. Ooops, my bad.
All in all camp was good, I'm still a little dismayed at some of the Alliance's closed mindedness (specifically towards women in ministry and anti-charismaticism) but I also realize that there are pockets of pastors who view things the same way that I do, this is encouraging and I am still hoping to be ordained C&MA.
On to IHOP!
I left camp a day or two early to come back and pack and get ready to go to the International House of Prayer (not pancakes, but still called IHOP) with a very close friend. This was a great trip. Before hitting Kansas City (where IHOP is) we stopped in Lawrence, Kansas so I could see yet another good friend and she could visit her sister-in-law. After a great time at our respective places, we arrived in Kansas City without a place to stay, luckily we ran into a Houghton grad and he let us crash at his apt.
Now with all the prefacing to this story done, I'll share my thoughts on IHOP. I journaled a lot while I was there so I will probably just include some mildly edited journal entries.
8/2/05 - 8:15pm
8/3/05 - 1:28am
8/3/05 - 8:00pm
Ok, so that is some of what was going through my head at IHOP, I know it has a little different tone that what most of my blogs do, but that's because I hadn't intended anyone to read it, but I am too lazy to rewrite it all so you get what you get.
I know these thoughts tended to be a bit critical, but please do not mistake me - I truly believe that place to be a house of prayer for all nations. I was delighted to see a wide range of ethnicities represented, and a world-focus in the prayer time. A lot of it was a new experience for me so it took some getting use to, but it is a place filled with godly people. I really didn't want to leave.
I came into this trip to IHOP not knowing what to expect, I kept hoping to see some "great miraculous thing" but I didn't. God however did speak to me, and challenged me to think about a lot of things. He also softened my heart and guided me to pray for people I normally wouldn't have or people I don't even know. I don't think I've ever prayed for others that much in my life, it taught me a lot about my focus. I spent a lot of time on my knees interceding for people, for their healing both physically and spiritually. I don't say this to make myself sound awesome, but just because that's what was going on with me.
It was also psuedo-monastic, in that the pace of life was slowed and really the only thing to do was to pray, and worship (not that the two are mutually exclusive by any means). This was such a good time of just resting and allowing God to speak to me before I take off and spend (Lord willing) 3+ years of my life pursuing a degree given to me by humans. No, I'm not completely knocking education, I'm just saying that this will help me keep my perspective and realize that theology cannot, and must not, be done apart from the people of God and intimate experience with the Most High. Any theology that is done by a person who isn't intimately in love with the person of Jesus Christ should be completely disregarded. They have no business telling the people of God how things are or how they should think. I know most of you who actually read this would agree with me on this issue, but nonetheless it's my soapbox for the night. We must never allow theology to be removed form the Church. One of the things that struck me about Tyson's book (which was awesome by the way) was that he constantly referred to the early fathers (and some mothers) as "Pastor-theologians." That's right, the writers of our creeds were not people sitting in ivory towers, trying to create a higher understanding of God in fancy words, no, these were people who lived and struggle as pastors. The main concern of these people was not "how can I 'one-up' the other theologians" rather it was "how can I correctly teach about Christ so that people may pursue him rightly." The creeds were forged in the fires of persecution and heresy. True theology, essential theology is that which we will hold onto in the face of certain death. I wouldn't die for my Arminian persuasion, or even my stance against the Church Growth Movement, but I would gladly give my life 100 times over (and to some exctend I pray that I may be found worthy) to defend the nature of Christ or the Godhead or to proclaim the gospel of Christ.
Yes, I have some theological cautions with IHOP, but when have I not had theological cautions about anything? A lot of what I am not a big fan of are valid biblical interpretations and they have very good reasons for doing.
There are some more theological issues that came to mind while at IHOP and they will be addressed in the future but for now I just wanted ot post what was going on and how God was using it to spiritually form me. Fear not, good friends, my theological ponderings will return and will hopefully be beneficially to you all and cause you to press into God, but for now I hope this encourages you, makes you think and still causes you to press into God.
I hope these thoughts cause you to think about what you believe, to intercede for others, and to meditate on the glorious Trinity.
Remember, that he will return to us and so I pray that all of us would press into him like there is nothing else that matters.
Let us press into him and he will heal us, bind our wounds and restore his church.
So how can I give a complete synopsis of my theological thoughts from a whole month, especially a month packed full of hearing preaching, praying, worshiping through song, and conversing with theologically astute friends. The answer... I can't. Thus, I fear that church camp will get touched on only briefly (since it is farthest in the past), and some of the conversations I've had will be written about sometime in the future.
On to Mahaffey!
I must preface this section by letting you all know that there is an old Alliance (Christian and Missionary Alliance - for those of you not of the true faith) adage that declares "You can't get to heaven until you've been to Mahaffey Camp." I have always interpreted this statement to mean that Mahaffey is necessary for salvation because it is a place where one can find true holiness or truly meet God, however recently some have used the statement to equate Mahaffey (with all of it's rustic virtues) to purgatory. I for one think that the latter interpretation of this statement is bogus, but whatever, you will always have those liberal theologians trying to make things mean what they don't. Oh and for those of you who don't believe that this statement is really said, just ask Drs. Charles and Darlene Bressler, they know how it is, and happily they are both going to heaven (although Charles is one of those "liberal theologians").
Camp was good, I spent a lot of time visiting with family, and explaining a few of my various theological stances to them, such as: "Why I use to be against women in ministry and now am zealously in favor of it," "Why I'm a charismatic," "What the gift of tongues is as far as I understand," "What The Openness of God is about," "Why I am so cynical," "Why I embrace the Catholic and Orthodox Churches," and "What soul sleep is and why I think I might be in favor of it."
Although, some may find the above questions a bit tiresome, I personally loved it. I love engaging and being asked questions about my varying theological positions because it forces me to look at them and examine if I truly do believe them.
Aside from visiting family, and discussing the above and various other topics, camp consited of attending prayer meetings and services, and starting both The Openness of God by Pinnock et al. and Who is God in Three Persons by John Tyson. I didn't finish either of these books at camp so I won't comment on them yet.
Although the services were good (the evening very good and the morning so so) I still felt like there wasn't much freedom or hope for the C&MA for most of camp. This changed when I was introduced to the evening speaker and he prayed (and what some might call prophesied) over me. The next night he asked "Brother Ben" to close the service but since I didn't know he was referring to me I stayed back. Ooops, my bad.
All in all camp was good, I'm still a little dismayed at some of the Alliance's closed mindedness (specifically towards women in ministry and anti-charismaticism) but I also realize that there are pockets of pastors who view things the same way that I do, this is encouraging and I am still hoping to be ordained C&MA.
On to IHOP!
I left camp a day or two early to come back and pack and get ready to go to the International House of Prayer (not pancakes, but still called IHOP) with a very close friend. This was a great trip. Before hitting Kansas City (where IHOP is) we stopped in Lawrence, Kansas so I could see yet another good friend and she could visit her sister-in-law. After a great time at our respective places, we arrived in Kansas City without a place to stay, luckily we ran into a Houghton grad and he let us crash at his apt.
Now with all the prefacing to this story done, I'll share my thoughts on IHOP. I journaled a lot while I was there so I will probably just include some mildly edited journal entries.
8/2/05 - 8:15pm
I feel a little lost sometimes because I'm not always sure what's going on but I do feel a spirit of peace [only I spelled it piece in my journal ha ha] in this place. There are a few things I'm not a fan of but nonetheless I think this is a good place. I'm not a big fan of the Israel emphasis that is a huge focus. I'm not sure what 'prophetic singers' are. There is a really strong emphasis on the bridal paradigm, there is communion stuff in the back corner, and it feels like the sacrament is 'just there.' The desire for miraculous stuff is very prevalent, but at the same time I desire these things too.... There is a strong individualistic push, but it is coupled by nontraditional corporate expressions.
I don't want to sound overly negative, this is a good place to meditate and soak, but much of it is just different.
8/3/05 - 1:28am
I really don't like it when they all speak in tongues at the same time. It just doesn't feel good to me, I know I shouldn't place so much emphasis on feeling, but often my 'gut feeling' is right. I still believe that these are godly people and that this is a godly place, but for some reason that just turns me off... Maybe part of my reservations are because its new to me....
They really emphasize the prophetic a lot here, which I think is cool, but it seems like our working definitions of prophet are different. I need to explore my ideas better so that I can decide which seems to fit more.
I've only heard him [Mike Bickle] a little bit, but what he said was good. He gave instructions for the prayer mic to the kids from the conference and made sure they knew that although he gets loud when he prays they don't have to. He made it clear that it is not volume or intensity of voice that makes God hear us. I thought this [to be] pretty good and solid.
Plus it was awesome to see the kids getting involved
8/3/05 - 8:00pm
I just finished Tyson's book on the trinity today. Oh how I love reading the ancient Trinitarian creeds of the church!.
My heart is continually broken when I think on the blessed Godhead... I know it is true not just based on creedal affirmation or biblical readings, but also from experience! The Spirit testifies to my spirit the greatness and blessedness of the trinity! When I meditate on the Godhead I am filled with wonder and awe, my heart burns with intimacy and worship of the Holy transcendent Godhead...
When my heart thinks on the Trinity I can hardly keep from claiming that my heart is 'strangely warmed'
Ok, so that is some of what was going through my head at IHOP, I know it has a little different tone that what most of my blogs do, but that's because I hadn't intended anyone to read it, but I am too lazy to rewrite it all so you get what you get.
I know these thoughts tended to be a bit critical, but please do not mistake me - I truly believe that place to be a house of prayer for all nations. I was delighted to see a wide range of ethnicities represented, and a world-focus in the prayer time. A lot of it was a new experience for me so it took some getting use to, but it is a place filled with godly people. I really didn't want to leave.
I came into this trip to IHOP not knowing what to expect, I kept hoping to see some "great miraculous thing" but I didn't. God however did speak to me, and challenged me to think about a lot of things. He also softened my heart and guided me to pray for people I normally wouldn't have or people I don't even know. I don't think I've ever prayed for others that much in my life, it taught me a lot about my focus. I spent a lot of time on my knees interceding for people, for their healing both physically and spiritually. I don't say this to make myself sound awesome, but just because that's what was going on with me.
It was also psuedo-monastic, in that the pace of life was slowed and really the only thing to do was to pray, and worship (not that the two are mutually exclusive by any means). This was such a good time of just resting and allowing God to speak to me before I take off and spend (Lord willing) 3+ years of my life pursuing a degree given to me by humans. No, I'm not completely knocking education, I'm just saying that this will help me keep my perspective and realize that theology cannot, and must not, be done apart from the people of God and intimate experience with the Most High. Any theology that is done by a person who isn't intimately in love with the person of Jesus Christ should be completely disregarded. They have no business telling the people of God how things are or how they should think. I know most of you who actually read this would agree with me on this issue, but nonetheless it's my soapbox for the night. We must never allow theology to be removed form the Church. One of the things that struck me about Tyson's book (which was awesome by the way) was that he constantly referred to the early fathers (and some mothers) as "Pastor-theologians." That's right, the writers of our creeds were not people sitting in ivory towers, trying to create a higher understanding of God in fancy words, no, these were people who lived and struggle as pastors. The main concern of these people was not "how can I 'one-up' the other theologians" rather it was "how can I correctly teach about Christ so that people may pursue him rightly." The creeds were forged in the fires of persecution and heresy. True theology, essential theology is that which we will hold onto in the face of certain death. I wouldn't die for my Arminian persuasion, or even my stance against the Church Growth Movement, but I would gladly give my life 100 times over (and to some exctend I pray that I may be found worthy) to defend the nature of Christ or the Godhead or to proclaim the gospel of Christ.
Yes, I have some theological cautions with IHOP, but when have I not had theological cautions about anything? A lot of what I am not a big fan of are valid biblical interpretations and they have very good reasons for doing.
There are some more theological issues that came to mind while at IHOP and they will be addressed in the future but for now I just wanted ot post what was going on and how God was using it to spiritually form me. Fear not, good friends, my theological ponderings will return and will hopefully be beneficially to you all and cause you to press into God, but for now I hope this encourages you, makes you think and still causes you to press into God.
I hope these thoughts cause you to think about what you believe, to intercede for others, and to meditate on the glorious Trinity.
Remember, that he will return to us and so I pray that all of us would press into him like there is nothing else that matters.
Let us press into him and he will heal us, bind our wounds and restore his church.
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